Voicemail to Voice

*Note: The following text is the output of transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.

Bill Berthel

Welcome. I’m Bill Berthel, and this is the Get Emergent podcast. Our team at Emergent has worked with leaders from all different industries at all different levels. And if there’s one thing we’ve learned in the 20 plus years in our business, it is that leadership is a continued conversation. We’re glad you’re here. So, Ralph, I’m really excited to have this conversation today. So we made a little wager. I want you to frame this up, though, because it was your idea.

Ralph Simone

We did, and we made the wager around making phone calls and how many people would actually pick up. Because part of one of the challenges of not just us, but a lot of people that are in the selling or relationship business is getting people on the phone to actually answer.

Bill Berthel

Not their voicemail. To get them.

Ralph Simone

So I think the bet, I think I asked you, if I’m recalling, I’ve got 30 people who I know. These weren’t cold calls. How many do you think will answer?

Bill Berthel

I think I said about half. I think I was overly optimistic.

Ralph Simone

You were overly optimistic. I think it was only two people. Now the part that I did feel good about was there was a second part to the bet. If you recall, the second part was callbacks. How many callbacks?

Bill Berthel

Because you would be willing to leave a message.

Ralph Simone

Right. I think that’s an interesting thing about the messages you’re leaving. One of the things about this whole idea of getting more people on the phone, more real people on the phone, is that a lot of our work is relational and hopefully transformational, not just transactional. I was pretty pleased with the return calls. I don’t think it was 100 percent, but it was pretty close.

Bill Berthel

So of the few, one or two that actually answered, what occurred there?

Ralph Simone

First of all, they were a little surprised. Like, oh, I didn’t expect a call. I don’t really have time, but I saw your number. So they made a connection with that. But I’m going to a meeting. Can I call you back? So that was interesting. Even for the people that picked up, it wasn’t a good time. I think playing around with that, and we started talking about this because, again, we’re in the relationship business, we’re in the people business. We heard a lot of clients complaining about how hard, how difficult it is to get people on the phone. Right. I was telling you, and I have been doing this, in fact I did it this morning, I’m picking up any call. My phone rings, I’m answering.

Bill Berthel

You’re answering spam calls?

Ralph Simone

Yes, I am. Because I want to talk to somebody. And just to make that connection, people believe that they are maybe working harder. They’re in more meetings. They’re in constant back to back. So they don’t have any time for themselves. So this is something that they can choose or guard against, the unplanned call. In some cases, we would support that. It’s an intrusion. It is not planned. Therefore, I can just let that go.

Bill Berthel

So some people might be utilizing technology to stay more focused. They might have their notifications off and they would miss our call or someone else’s call.

Ralph Simone

Absolutely. I think one of the challenges when you take an extreme position on something is that there are reasons not to take a call.

Bill Berthel

Sure, sure, sure.

Ralph Simone

There are reasons to use technology and AI to handle transactional things. Now, you’ve been around, so when I make a call to customer service, I’m not interested in hitting buttons.

Bill Berthel

Oh, yeah.

Ralph Simone

I’ve got a situation that requires a person intervention. So I clear my throat to automatically get put through, to shorten that cycle.

Bill Berthel

It used to be just hit zero and you get to.

Ralph Simone

But now it’s not.

Bill Berthel

No, no, no.

Ralph Simone

That easy. I’m not saying that that’s not a good system. I’m not saying that having something set up to handle transactional things. But I think the pendulum has swung too far. And with all of the ways in which we are connected, we don’t seem to be connecting to the level that we could. And that’s why I want to do more face to face, more voice to voice. I remember growing up in a house. These were landlines. People would trip over themselves.

Bill Berthel

My brother and I would race to the phone to see who it was. No caller ID.

Ralph Simone

Right.

Bill Berthel

Just a desk phone or a wall phone.

Ralph Simone

I think we’ve lost that sense of wonder. It’s like, who could be calling?

Bill Berthel

There is no sense of wonder in that anymore because we know.

Ralph Simone

And actually today I was excited to pick the phone up, but I still knew who it was. I’d rather not know who it is. So I think we have to be careful that we’re not overly transactional with our technology. That’s one of the things that I’m looking at from my own perspective, even my interactions with my kids. I’m delighted that my son calls on Sundays before he goes to work.

Ralph Simone

Like I used to call from my dorm phone.

Bill Berthel

Yes, yes, yes.

Ralph Simone

On Sunday night you’d call home. Call home just to check in. It’s interesting. I think my son is less self centered than I was. I’m telling my parents about all my classes and probably not asking about them. He’s asking us how we’re doing, what did we do on the weekend, and could we catch up via text?

Bill Berthel

Not the same way.

Ralph Simone

Not the same way.

Bill Berthel

Much more transactionally. Maybe you’d share a few facts.

Ralph Simone

Data points. The calls unfold and there is a deep, deep connection. And I really look forward to those calls. Absolutely look forward to those calls. I want to be making more of those calls, to be the person that maybe on the other end someone looks forward to hearing from. And when you answer, people say, I was getting ready to leave you a message. In the way I answer, people think, because I start with my name, Ralph Simone, and they think they got my voicemail, which is also funny. So they have to reset.

Bill Berthel

Yes.

Ralph Simone

That’s okay. But let’s just talk. When I am feeling a little off, I’ll call a friend of mine.

Bill Berthel

And we might talk nonsense for 45 minutes, but energetically when you hang up the phone, you know we’re at a.

Ralph Simone

Another level. And for me those are my little pep talks. I can get that through reading, but I can get it better through the human relational interaction.

Bill Berthel

So just for fun, do you have your phone with you?

Ralph Simone

I do.

Bill Berthel

So who would you call? You don’t have to say who you’re calling, but think about someone you think would likely pick up. Business wise, not family.

Ralph Simone

Business wise.

Bill Berthel

Do you want to give them a call?

Ralph Simone

Sure.

Bill Berthel

Let’s see if they pick up.

Ralph Simone

Let’s see.

Bill Berthel

Could be fun. It’s ringing.

Ralph Simone

Might be in class.

Bill Berthel

There are reasons people might not pick up.

Ralph Simone

Right. So we’re in the middle of a podcast and Bill challenged me. Is there anybody that you call that you think would take your call?

Bill Berthel

And they picked up.

Ralph Simone

And they picked up.

Bill Berthel

Awesome.

Ralph Simone

You proved my experience.

Bill Berthel

Thank you. I love that. That was not scripted. That was not planned.

Ralph Simone

No, it wasn’t.

Bill Berthel

How did you know they would pick up? I asked you to call someone you felt you had a pretty good chance of reaching, and they did. Why did they come to the top of your list?

Ralph Simone

I think there’s a strong, trusting relationship. This is a guy that I coached starting about five years ago. He was new to the area.

Bill Berthel

Yes.

Ralph Simone

I think we’ve become friends too. So it is a business relationship that has a stronger friend component to it. I’ve also been coaching him a little bit on some decisions he needs to make.

Bill Berthel

So it’s been a transformational relationship.

Ralph Simone

No question about it. No question.

Bill Berthel

You both put in the time, the effort, the energy. So, Ralph, what you’ve got me thinking about is how we often start some of our work days around the coffee pot, around the K cup machine, where we get an opportunity to connect for the day. We might have a little bit of banter, we have some conversation, but that space really allows some storytelling, some sharing of experiences that I personally then take into the rest of my day. It’s a great way to start the day.

Ralph Simone

I come in intentionally about an hour early, hoping that people don’t have a tight connection to their first commitment, because then we can get into things that we didn’t expect. We got into something this morning that was around letting go.

Bill Berthel

Yes.

Ralph Simone

And I guess you could do that in writing, a long passage, but I don’t know how we would have gotten into that conversation if it wasn’t in person.

Bill Berthel

We wouldn’t have. I don’t mean to be too absolute. It does take the connecting, whether we’re connecting by phone, whether we have the luxury of sharing the same space. But even with the nice pieces of that, I achieve better. I get better results in my day. I get thoughts about something we’re going to put into maybe the content of a new training piece. You often help me in an upcoming coaching conversation that I’m not being strategic about.

Ralph Simone

It just blends in, but there’s a strong correlation between relating and then achieving.

Bill Berthel

Yes.

Ralph Simone

And when we get a shift in energy to anabolic energy, we’re going to be more resourceful.

Bill Berthel

Absolutely.

Ralph Simone

We might hear something that we can tie back. One of the reasons I read a lot is because I think everything is material and everything connects to something. So I do think the face to face allows time for story.

Bill Berthel

Absolutely. Metaphor, analogies.

Ralph Simone

Things that give us a broader perspective.

Bill Berthel

That then deepens the relationship and allows us to actually get higher quality work, better work, more accomplishments through the day.

Ralph Simone

No question. You got me thinking about coming in early. In my very first job, and I think I was telling Kathy a story the other day, I used to start at like 6:30 and I would go in, particularly if I had a lot of work, because I wanted to get some stuff planned and organized before everybody got in so I could shoot the breeze.

Bill Berthel

So then you could connect when they did come in.

Ralph Simone

About the basketball game or about the football game. It just was, take a walk to the cafeteria.

Bill Berthel

And in that walk, you might bump into a few folks.

Ralph Simone

And you might talk nonsense or you might be talking about some meaningful challenge that you’re up against. But it wasn’t scripted, and it allowed things to unfold. But it certainly was energizing. And that’s why I like to get people on the phone. That’s why I like to hear their voice. It creates a level of energy and you can take the relationship and the achievement to the next level.

Bill Berthel

Absolutely. I sometimes hear the defense of introverts saying, that’s just not me. I don’t get energized by making those connections. What do you think?

Ralph Simone

Well, I’m an introvert.

Bill Berthel

You are. That’s why I asked you.

Ralph Simone

Even introverts can benefit from that. Most of mine would be one on one.

Bill Berthel

Yes.

Ralph Simone

Where I get drained, and people don’t believe it, is when I do a group thing. That’s draining, because it’s one to many. But the one to one stuff is what I really enjoy. And even if it’s a short conversation.

Bill Berthel

Like in the checkout line.

Ralph Simone

I don’t like self serve in a grocery store because the whole part of the experience is the interaction with whoever is at the cashier.

Bill Berthel

With the cashier.

Ralph Simone

So my bold prediction is.

Bill Berthel

What’s that?

Ralph Simone

In five years those things will no longer be in most stores.

Bill Berthel

Self checkouts. Why? What are you thinking?

Ralph Simone

Because I think there’s a couple of reasons. One, people go to shop to make connection.

Bill Berthel

Right. I can do that online.

Ralph Simone

Otherwise you’d order it online. So you’re in the store. Second, people are slow in it. Third, they have a lot of shrinkage. And I’m going to take positive intent, because people forget. They get nervous. They’re putting stuff in their bag and haven’t scanned it yet. Or if they’ve got stuff underneath it. In my opinion, for one of the nicest grocery stores around here, it does not add to the brand of the store. So that’s my bold prediction. I don’t have any money on it, but I think in five years, and I’ve been saying it out loud actually over there, that won’t exist in five years. Get back in line.

Bill Berthel

Interesting. I often think about the term, I think it came from the book Bowling Alone, toxic independence.

Ralph Simone

Yes.

Bill Berthel

We don’t want toxic independence. But despite being very social creatures, we need solitude and independence as well. There’s a both and there. So it’s not connecting ad nauseam every moment. It is not that. All of us need some solitude. All of us need some independent time, independent thought.

Ralph Simone

Absolutely.

Bill Berthel

It’s a both and.

Ralph Simone

And I think if you look at your day, and we often talk about in weekly or success planning, working in, on, and out of the business. In and out of the business could be solitude time. It could be vacation time. Probably the most sacred part of my day is from 5:45 until 7 o’clock.

Bill Berthel

Morning.

Ralph Simone

Morning. Uninterrupted.

Bill Berthel

Yes.

Ralph Simone

There is no phone.

Bill Berthel

Yes.

Ralph Simone

There are no people.

Bill Berthel

An intentional morning ritual is an intentional.

Ralph Simone

Solitude ritual, and solitude for me to ease into the day, to really give myself the energy to move through the day in an effective way.

Bill Berthel

So I’m going to suggest that still connecting. You’re connecting with self.

Ralph Simone

Yes.

Bill Berthel

Right.

Ralph Simone

Because in that, and we have to remember that connection, just like we have to remember the connection with others. We have to manage the tension so that we’re not going too far one way or the other, too far to being the hermit, or toxic independence, I don’t need anybody, too much the other way could be toxic interdependence.

Bill Berthel

Right.

Ralph Simone

Everything. And I actually think that crosses teams up in organizations because they’re not clear about that which is independent and that which is interdependent. And that clarity, I think, helps give permission and focus to things that belong in either of those buckets.

Bill Berthel

And it’s a dynamic thing. We all have slightly different appetites depending on the context, the relationship, the situation. There are certain projects I love to be alone in, and there are others where I need people, I want people.

Ralph Simone

I think we all need to stretch.

Bill Berthel

Yes.

Ralph Simone

We get comfortable doing it a certain way. This will probably sound a little bit like a generalization, but because of technology, I think younger people have a hard time picking up the phone and initiating a conversation. I want to be careful not to paint with a broad brush, but I think they’re more comfortable texting or doing email and probably texting. And I encourage my kids, you’ve got to pick the phone up. You’ve got to find out what’s going on. It seems to be more of a stretch.

Bill Berthel

I think I’d agree with that. I want to be careful not generalizing for generations as well. But my son’s 15 years old and he would rather give me a three letter text, so I create the forcing function of calling him just to get that practice a little more. You’re making me wonder if one of the enemies of connection is routine. I wonder if we’re so in our routines that we might be missing the opportunities to connect.

Ralph Simone

I think this is the paradox, Bill. Because we spend a fair amount of time with our clients helping them establish rituals and routines that will scale their leadership.

Bill Berthel

Right.

Ralph Simone

And I think the unexamined rituals and routines can lead to disconnection over time.

Bill Berthel

That’s what I mean, those unexamined routines.

Ralph Simone

You can get so rigid in your schedule, and this is why I think you want to keep some white space. You want to have time specific activities and time flexible activities. You don’t want all your time blocked to tasks. You want some of it blocked to people or relationships. It is dynamic. I think what happens is we want to have this process now. I plan my time out. But we can get so in love with that, so attached to that, that we miss a wonderful opportunity.

Bill Berthel

Which might just be picking up the phone.

Ralph Simone

Could be.

Bill Berthel

It might be as simple and beautiful as that.

Ralph Simone

Just picking up the phone or answering the door. People don’t answer the door. In fact, they say turn the lights off. It used to be exciting to answer the door. So I think I want to put myself, I want to challenge myself.

Bill Berthel

I love your personal challenge. What would we maybe ask leaders to be experimenting with, thinking about differently here?

Ralph Simone

This is a dated term, but I was going to say Rolodex.

Bill Berthel

Rolodex.

Ralph Simone

But go to your contacts.

Bill Berthel

They had an opportunity to create an app. I think they missed out. But keep going to Rolodex.

Ralph Simone

Go to your contacts. I do this periodically. Look through it and ask, who is an important business relationship to you that you have not reached out to voice to voice in a while? Make that call. That’s what I would do. And it may be more than one call. There may be a few people. So that’s what I think I would challenge people to do.

Bill Berthel

Love it. Love it. Thanks, Ralph.

Ralph Simone

Thank you, Bill.

Bill Berthel

Thank you for being here today, and we hope you pick something up from this episode that you can apply, and we hope you’re looking forward to more. Thanks for being here.