All In or All Out

*Note: The following text is the output of transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.

Bill Berthel

I’m Bill Berthel, and this is the Get Emergent Podcast. Our team at Emergent has worked with leaders from all different industries at all different levels. And if there’s one thing we’ve learned in the 20 plus years of our business, is that leadership is a continued conversation. We’re glad you’re here.

Bill Berthel

Hey, Ralph, thanks for, this time. I know we’re going to have fun with this conversation.

Ralph Simone

You’re thanking me?

Bill Berthel

Maybe a little earlier, because I set you up. I set you up because I think we’re both a little edgy on this topic of commitment. I’ve been using the term kind of, you know, what’s our culture of commitment? so I want to have that conversation with you today because I think we’re both a little frustrated. I think.

Ralph Simone

Yeah. little might be understating it for me, but.

Bill Berthel

All right. Yeah. So this. This frustration around what feels like a lack of commitment in many different ways. We’re not just sitting here complaining about people missing their appointments or not picking up phone calls, as we’ve talked about in previous podcasts. But what is it for you? There’s this erosion of commitment.

Ralph Simone

So the one word that comes up, and I know it’s going to sound a little jet, but I think people are flaky.

Bill Berthel

They’re flaky.

Ralph Simone

I mean, this is my, like, commit to something, for God’s sake. And I don’t actually even care how well you do it. Just be all in. Commit. And, you know, I’ve noticed this, and one of the places I’ve noticed it is, RSVPs.

Bill Berthel

Yeah.

Ralph Simone

It’s like people are waiting for a better offer or something.

Bill Berthel

I think they are. I think they sometimes are, actually.

Ralph Simone

You know, and maybe, maybe that’s okay. But what happened to the day you get something, you say, yeah, I’m going, I’m in. And you show up, and I think, you know, people are partially there. Really not. I think this comes back to being present. you know, so this, you know, building this culture of commitment, and I do think it starts with being stronger, with commitments to yourself.

Bill Berthel

Yeah.

Ralph Simone

What are the few vital things, the things that matter most that you’re all in on? yes. So if I make a commitment to go to lunch with you, for instance, I’m in. Unless a personal emergency comes up, there

Bill Berthel

are very few reasons you’d miss it.

Ralph Simone

Yeah. Because I’ve already made that commitment to you. I’m thinking about what’s the intention? What are we going to cover? I was on my way to a lunch recently and I get the call that, well, I’m a little too jammed up today, can’t make it. What the hell does that mean, little too jammed up? If you told me you got a call from your kid’s school and they had an accident. I got it. You’re a little jammed up. Okay, what does that mean? Right? And even the language, the language is noncommittal. It’s just, it’s general. It’s I mean, you know that I’ve been doing weekly planning and then I have a daily plan. I’ve been doing it for 30 years and maybe I need to let some people catch up. But what does success look like? What’s the plan for the day or for the week? What matters most? And then how are you going to use your energy during that seven day week based on those things? And so these commitments I treat and people bristle at this point. All commitments with the same level of intensity.

Bill Berthel

So that’s interesting. I don’t think most people would do that. They would start categorizing somehow.

Ralph Simone

I probably told you the story I had committed. I was gonna have a kid who was gonna cut my lawn. And this was, I was actually, I taught my wife a clinic in commitment that day. Saturday kid, he’s gonna meet me at 2 o’ clock and at 1 o’ clock she says, let’s take a ride out to the Finger Lakes. I said, great idea, we need to wait till 2:30. She goes, I’m ready now. I said, I got a commitment with the kid down the street who’s going to come and talk about cutting our lawn.

Bill Berthel

Yeah. Yes.

Ralph Simone

And she goes, well, it’s not a business. I said, it is a commitment, just like a business.

Bill Berthel

Yeah.

Ralph Simone

I, I got this kid interested, he’s going to come up. You know how particular I am. This is going to be a half hour conversation to give him a chance to see if he is committed to the job. She goes, you’re not going to change that, are you? I said, absolutely not. I am not going to change it up on that kid.

Bill Berthel

Right.

Ralph Simone

You know, and, and it reminds me, this is a story, so I know you’re not a big sports guy, but you know the Yankees.

Bill Berthel

Oh yeah, sure, sure.

Ralph Simone

You probably know the name Joe DiMaggio.

Bill Berthel

Sure, of course.

Ralph Simone

A famous, you know, hall of Famer. Ah, outfielder. Yeah. And DiMaggio was asked, one day how come he plays so hard day in and day out. He has this commitment to just playing at his best. He Said because each time I play, it’s the first time some seven year old boy or girl will be seen.

Bill Berthel

Oh, wow. So, he saw that public model. He wanted to be that more public model. So he’d bring his best game every day, every time.

Ralph Simone

And that’s commitment. And I think that we need to bring that to every commitment we make in our council calendar. We want to bring our better self to those conversations. And part of that is sticking to it, preparing for it and showing up. Don’t give me this BS that, you know, my support assistant made it or my wife made it. Own your calendar. Own it. Own your energy, Own the things that you commit to and then follow through with them.

Bill Berthel

There’s, there’s better than gold in there. There’s platinum in there. Ralph, hang on for a second. The. How do I say no to my friend when I’m not really into it? How do I say no to my business partner when I’m not really into it? Because I think there is a, obligation that’s weaker than a desire.

Ralph Simone

Yes.

Bill Berthel

So how do I.

Ralph Simone

How do I. Yeah, I think, I think it’s uncomfortable.

Bill Berthel

Yeah.

Ralph Simone

And so I think you lead with that. Like, I appreciate the invitation and it’s uncomfortable for me to decline, but I am more committed to this.

Bill Berthel

To something else.

Ralph Simone

To something else. And I’m not suggesting that’s not uncomfortable.

Bill Berthel

Yeah.

Ralph Simone

But I think, be honest with it so that when you commit, you’re going to be there. I think the reason I was talking to somebody the other day, I don’t. There’s never been a need for me to work overtime unless I was screwing around. If I was focused in present and committed to the work that was right in front of me.

Bill Berthel

Not squandering your time.

Ralph Simone

Yeah. Right now part of squandering could be relationship building. So I could be committed to that. So I don’t want to be overly rigid with that.

Bill Berthel

Right, right.

Ralph Simone

But that’s how I do it and say, here’s where I am now. Before I came here, I actually told Maggie, my wife, that the topic we’re going to talk about, and she goes, well, you can share how you weren’t committed to me for about three years. And she, was. Right.

Bill Berthel

Pre marriage, I hope.

Ralph Simone

Yeah. And 30 years later. But it was the idea that I was over and I wasn’t looking to go over two. Yeah. And so I was very much noncommittal and was I surprised that no relationship was moving forward. And then when I decided I’m all in to see if we can go the distance. That’s when things change.

Bill Berthel

So there’s something about our past experiences might be informing our current and future commitments.

Ralph Simone

Absolutely. Like I was all in and it didn’t work out.

Bill Berthel

Yeah.

Ralph Simone

All right, well, what’d you learn? Right. And so what will it take for you to be all in again? I think being present is being all in. You know, I don’t give much unsolicited advice to my kids. M. And people who know me probably surprised by that, but I really don’t. But every now and then they’ll ask and and one of the things that they asked, they said, dad, so whatever we choose, what do you think? I said be all in. While you’re in may not be the thing you do forever.

Bill Berthel

Yeah.

Ralph Simone

But show up on time, prepared, and you will be ahead of most people. And then when it gets, if it gets old or you want to try something else, then go for that. But don’t be half in, half out because that’s half assed. and it will exhaust you, as opposed to energize you. And again, I like to bring it back to. I think we have a lot of wasted time and energy in organizations and teams and relationships because not committed to the moment right in front of us. You know, what can I do with what’s right in front of me? That’s what I’m most committed to. But my calendar has a series of these things that I want to put right in front of me. M. And I’ve been referred to as rigid around my calendar. I don’t like to move things around. It’s not my first choice. I don’t like to even, like I did today at ah, last minute, say I may need to sneak out a little early. M. but that was related to a commitment I made to actually move some, move a relationship along. And so be committed to what’s right in front of you and take enough time to be clear that those are the things that are most important for you now. In that they provide you with some sense of purpose, some satisfaction, but some struggle.

Bill Berthel

my son’s school has, I think this is a national trend happening. They have a, everything but a backpack day.

Ralph Simone

Okay.

Bill Berthel

And so the kids can get super creative in how they carry their, their books or materials. Right. So some kids are bringing in like they’ll bring in a kayak. And because they have their books or their laptop in the kayak, they’re literally going through the hallway with a whole. So they’re bringing a lot of extra stuff. So what they recognize in that day is you can’t be late to class. Like, you won’t. It’s four minutes. But some kids need six minutes to get to class if they’re bringing all that stuff, if they’re hauling something bigger than a backpack. Right. You know, so, bringing less stuff

Ralph Simone

allows you to make the transition to

Bill Berthel

not just show up on time, but be there to be committed.

Ralph Simone

Yeah. See, I think, I am a little bit of a stickler for on time, but I, I would rather you be a couple minutes late and fully there when you get.

Bill Berthel

Yeah. Than being on time and not showing up.

Ralph Simone

What I find, though, is that the, the bunching up, causes people to be a foot in the last discussion.

Bill Berthel

Yeah.

Ralph Simone

In a foot in this discussion. Or they’re trying to catch up.

Bill Berthel

what I’m hearing is highly committed to, your calendar, to your events. Or the calendar is just the tool.

Ralph Simone

Calendar.

Bill Berthel

That’s just the tool. Right. So I don’t want to say you’re committed to your calendar. You’re actually committed to each of the things the calendar is capturing, representing. Tell me why that might be viewed as rigid.

Ralph Simone

So, before I do that, I want to tell you that’s a great distinction. I own my commitments. I don’t own my calendar.

Bill Berthel

Yeah, I get your difference, but that is important.

Ralph Simone

You made that decision.

Bill Berthel

Yeah, I hear you.

Ralph Simone

I hear you. I appreciate that. I think I’m going to say it differently. people think it’s for some.

Bill Berthel

You. You just said some people would say, well, you know.

Ralph Simone

Yeah, because you won’t move it. I said, I will move bit. You know what I used to say, which probably reinforced the rigidity. I think there’s two reasons to miss a commitment. Your death or someone else’s. Now, I’ve had people say, well, that’s because if your kid was at school and got hurt, so, yes, there, there’s room. But the things that I change my commitments for is a short list.

Bill Berthel

Right?

Ralph Simone

Is a very short list.

Bill Berthel

So that looks like a lack of flexibility.

Ralph Simone

Yeah. Yeah. Now, you know how I think I’m very. I think I can be very flexible because I have space between my commitments. Yeah. And I think so. I think there is a process that you can follow. I mean, this. I’ll, quote Stephen Covey, one of my favorite guys.

Bill Berthel

Right.

Ralph Simone

He said, you want to get yourself flexibility, and spontaneous spontaneity. Get yourself scheduled.

Bill Berthel

Right, right, right.

Ralph Simone

Yeah.

Bill Berthel

Yeah.

Ralph Simone

Look. And look at the whole canvas of your week. Of your year and plug those commitments that you really, want to follow through on. But don’t over commit.

Bill Berthel

Yeah, yeah. It’s the same principle where creativity, requires structure, innovation requires structure, your flexibility actually requires getting scheduled, some structure and

Ralph Simone

that then you have the space to be flexible.

Bill Berthel

Yeah, yeah. Our, clients, colleagues and friends at, Vanderkamp, Troy Evans, he suggests that clarity is going to be the new currency. And what I like about that is I think the more clear we are on things, the more committed we can be. So I think while we’re asking people, especially leaders and organizations, to make sure they’re holding those commitments, that’s built on the foundation of the clarity of what’s important. Right. Really getting clear on what’s important first. That that’s the bedrock of then I’m

Ralph Simone

committed to this thing and recognize you can change it.

Bill Berthel

Yeah.

Ralph Simone

So I think that the reason people aren’t clear is fear. The reason they’re not clear is fear, because they’re afraid that, well, if I commit to this, what am I missing out on, what am I sure? And you can change it. As things change, your commitments will need to change. and so I think here’s for me, the key takeaway is be all in on the stuff that you commit to because you will find it energizing. The, that you find draining is because you’re not all in. You got like half a foot in and you’re not. And you’re kind of watching from the sidelines and you’re not getting the energy from the other people because you’re kind of still kind of protecting what you, what energy. You think you’re protecting energy. You’re actually losing energy in that process. You know, we got a book on the table which we probably should, take off the table.

Bill Berthel

That’s a good.

Ralph Simone

Yeah. You know, this is a book we’ve used, who Will do what by Wine. I’d highly recommend it. The one suggestion we think they should have added and why. But I think this is a great book. If. A simple book. If you’re really looking to strengthen your own commitments and first start with your commitments to yourself. I, I think it’s a per. You know, I actually think it’s personal responsibility. You owe it to yourself to be all in. And the stuff that you’ve chosen to, you know, to, to put in as your commitments for the week, you owe it to yourself first.

Bill Berthel

I love that.

Ralph Simone

then you owe it to the people that you’re in it with.

Bill Berthel

Yeah.

Ralph Simone

And you know, sometimes all in. you know, for me, I. I have to. I have to recognize. I got to dial it down a little bit. I can be all in, and I can still modulate it a little bit. Right. So, so, so, so that other people can be all in.

Bill Berthel

Sure.

Ralph Simone

Right. That’s. That’s.

Bill Berthel

Oh, and don’t be all in and take all the space. Yeah, Right.

Ralph Simone

Be all in as a contributing member.

Bill Berthel

Yeah.

Ralph Simone

But so others can. Can also play. Yeah.

Bill Berthel

Love it. Love it. Ralph. Thank you.

Ralph Simone

Thanks, Bill.

Bill Berthel

It’s fun. Thank you for being here today, and we hope you picked something up from this episode that you can apply, and we hope you’re looking forward to more. Thanks for being here.